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Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
424
   |
Posted - 2013.08.31 01:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have friends often try and sell me on racial jammers. I stick with multispectrals. So knowing that, I like ECM as is. I gain nothing by losing racial jammers as I have no need for them.
ECM ships have reduced combat capabilities as far as damage goes. They have no real tank outside of the jamming unless they opt to give up even more damage/tank from low slot use.
As a caldari pilot I speak on behalf of the falcon in particular. Shield slots are ecm slots and dps slots are armor tanking slots. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:Falcon, Blackbird, Rook. Barring the rook, they're paperthin. People say this a lot, and it's not right (well, I'll give you the Blackbird). The Rook is not that much tougher than the Falcon - assuming you choose to actually fit a real tank on your ECM ship - and both are capable of fitting a tank on par with other recons without crippling their function as an electronic warfare platform. They're 'paper thin' because people have a nasty habit of fitting a feeble armor tank or just completely omitting buffer in order to maximize jamming ability. (And because people hate ECM, which makes them a bullet magnet). It's a bit of a tangent, but Caldari recons' supposed lack of durability gets cited a lot in discussions of ECM, and it's just not the case.
Its absolutely the case unless you try and equip an armor tank to a shield based race of ships and sacrifice its purpose in doing so.
If i'm expected to have an armor tank or bcs low slot setup in place of ecm strength why bring the ship to begin with? Nothing pumps out dps like 2 missile launchers and 1 turret.
I suppose at that point another tengu on the field would be optimal. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
437
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 08:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Crellion wrote:I respect you hard work OP, you are certainly doing it better than CCP. However all this is unnecessary.
There is a perfect system in place for EW. It was there before CCP introduced the chance based malarkey into the equation.
You have X jammers with a combined strength of Y and the target ship jas a sensor strangth of Y-1 he is jammed for as long as you can keep all modules active on him, if his strength is Y+1 he is not hammed. As simple as that. The only one who needs to calculate all the boring bits is the EW pilot.
ECM worked like this for years, perfectly allright and perfectly balanced (IMO) and then CCP decided they would fixitTM... a simple rollback would fix ECM.
Alternatively remove it from the game altogether. EW in general is a force multiplier in favor of the side having the numerical advantage and is therefore entirely unnecessary and disadvantageous for combat balance... There I said it... game mechanics that leave a player with nothing to do are bad game mechanics . . . its why the sandman was changed in TF2. There should never be any instance in any competitive game ever where the player has no options to do or choices to make that will affect the battle. ECM jamming you, and leaving you nothing to do is a bad game mechanic.
Yes, When i'm bubbled, webbed and alpha'd I too hate that I have no chance. That's EVE though. There are many ways to be left completely powerless and ECM is one of them. Unless of course you defend against it. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
437
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't really have to defend the mechanics. Caldari and missiles along with ewar tie in. Not liking the mechanic isn't proof of it being out of line in EVE. ECM "resistance" skills are trainable and modules exist as well to boost that resistance even further. While I do engage in these threads often out of boredom I really don't worry about ECMs future at all.
Deal with it. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
438
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 09:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes my attitude is snarky after training ECM taking for granted it would be effective to have and then ever more often watching the skills go from effective to less effective to now often requested removed. You'll forgive me if I choose to defend the choices I was offered in game and committed to achieving. I'm now forced to endure mountains of cry from people who can't be bothered to even equip 1 mod to defend against it.
I do not want more TANK. I do not want more DPS. I want to JAM your ships. Simple..
Just as advertised when it was month after month accepting my currency for the ability to train it.
You'll have to excuse me while I laugh out loud at your notion players "balance" the game. Players run games in to the ground. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
459
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 00:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sigras wrote:youre talking to someone with 4 characters who have each put more than 4 million SP into jamming, its just that some of us are able to put the good of the game ahead of our own wants and desires.
You have yet to "elaborately detail" why jamming does not need a change after having been explained to several times why it is a bad game mechanic . . . I tried to have a discussion with you; you told me to "deal with it"
I haven't seen evidence it's bad game mechanics. I have seen people demonstrate its effective when they refuse to defend against it. ECM has been changed from consistent to random to less effective. Its time for the playerbase to HTFU. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
460
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 06:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is counter play. You equip eccm and I go down in flames. You don't equp eccm you go down in flames. Just because a mini game doesn't pop up mid fight for us to spar it out with doesn't mean there aren't counters available.
LOL at well respected source. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
461
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nothing in this thread has merit. Its yet another idea to change a mechanic because people don't want to be jammed. Well guess what . TFB. Its working just fine as is. It doesn't need changing. They aren't going to remove it. They aren't going to make it disable high slots and its just about as weak as it could go before it becomes a waste of time to bring. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
462
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 21:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shields suck if you aren't the target. Unless you're being hit they are absolutely worthless.
ECM has falloff.
I have every ewar skill level 5. The exception being the resistance ones that came in after I remapped out of int and mem. I spent the better part of two years in int mem.
Before we argue semantics, define skill.
Random has every reason to be in this game and others. Without it the results are linear and can be predicted. Predictability is stale. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
471
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 18:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
There is as much opportunity cost for having shields as there are for having base ship sensor strength. Perhaps you mean shield mods. If so, shield mods like ecm mods, take up a slot that could be used for something else. Target painters, webs, points; etc.
If those slots you use for shields go unused they are in fact wasted. Ive went in war multiple weeks and dozens of fights without so much as being shot. Each time I had shields just in case I were though. As often as people complain about ecm and encountering it one would think the best solution is to always have ECCM/SBA's equipped.
I trust you have ECM experience. I am not calling it into question.
That's a very narrow definition and uniquely worded to fit your opinion. A more accurate description would be
skill
/skil/
noun
noun: skill
1. the ability to do something well; expertise
StarCraft is a completely different genre of game. It being held as one of the most competitive game in the world is opinion.
I believe Chess to be the most skill based and in chess whoever can think the furthest ahead while eliminating the unnecessary moves is the better plaer. Thinking ahead and being prepared for ecm and having the skill to counter your opponent even if they don't bring ECM and you have an imperfect setup is skill.
You have this in EVE right now.
Randomness is not the opposite of skill.Its antonyms are
essential
methodical
planned
systematic
definite
particular
specific |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
488
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Damage is not universal. It's also not guaranteed save for maybe in a 1v1. But even then there are fringe cases. Combat versus Freighter as an example.
ECM is another weapon system, like guns and missiles. It does no damage however so shields do not defend against it. Eve is a complex game.
Randomness does not make you "less good at a game" In fact if there was no randomness every battle would be absolutely predictable and in most cases the larger party would always win.
You won't beat me by just hitting jam cycles. You may beat me by hitting jam cycles and having another means to kill me.
In chess there are random variables that follow a simple set of rules. You do not control your opponents moves and as such what you encounter is random.
You can think ahead by equipping ECCM, Backup Sensor Arrays or bringing your own ECM.
Risk is a game where you roll dice to attack and defend. Claiming that it has no skill involved because you don't engage in FPS style pvp whenever a battle is fought is .... reductive. Where did the manual state if you put 30 troops on something and are attacked by less you'll win? You risked a turtle defense, failed to recognize the danger of an impending attack and paid the price.
You can absolutely get better at rolling dice by "schooling" them. I won't bother explaining that concept but rest assured it's factual. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
504
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 04:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
We can go back and forth from now til the end of time. I'm not budging nor are you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. |
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